Amicitia Incursio

Amicitia Incursio – Friendship raiding; how to raid and keep friends! WoW style.

:+: Transition :+: February 3, 2008

Filed under: world of warcraft — minignomecakes @ 12:08 am
Tags: , ,

 For those interesting in some good reading on this topic consider:”
Building a raiding guild || Structuring your casual raiding guild

Normally I post about what I know. – And things that I like to talk about.
Well, today I’m doing more talking but I’m also looking for input. ;)

For those of you who don’t know, I currently help run a medium/small sized guild raiding Karazhan and looking to move into ZA within the coming week or two. – We clear gruul’s weekly with our alliance and help from friends. (though not this week, it’s superbowl!)

Recently we’ve entered discussions on SSC and how to go about fitting together a stable group of 25 people together.
We’re looking at loot rules, how to run it, group invites, specs, gear, and lots of other things.

I’m a veteran of the old raiding circuit, so it doesn’t frighten me, I’m thrilled to get the chance to head towards SSC and others. However, I’m unsure exactly how to transition a guild or even encourage a guild alliance entirely, as I have never been in this position before.

A little background; We’re a handful of guilds, quite a few with one or two raiders from it. The largest of who are percitpating being  INC, with easily ten+ consistent raiders. – the second closest being 7-9. The two of us started an alliance with another guild, (which has dissolved) and we have continued to raid and play together on a fairly regular basis.

Having gotten gruul’s down to a successful clear a few weeks in a row we’re starting to pursue talks of SSC/TK/MAG – to be ahead of the game when the time comes we’re geared and ready for it.

We’ve already started to talk a little and have set up a ‘meeting’ later this week to take place in hopes to find some common ground and ideas. – And to keep talks flowing on resist gear and mats we need to pursue.

first let me say that these are thoughts and feelings that I have discussed very limited with them and have not been approved at all, I’m just looking for feedback and suggestions at this point.

The following I have purposed to them for further discussion this week:

Forums and council:

First thing will go down without a hitch, we’re going to set up a forum for us and those who we invite to our 25 man system. To keep in touch without having to log into the game or to eliminate the need to send out 25+ notes every time we set up a raid. – We have a name in mind and we’ll be using a PhP free based forum.

My hope is to have a council formed for guidance and representation in larger massed guilds in the runs (5+ players in the run is the number I’ve suggested) so we can keep the field leveled. – Also, these would be some of the fourm mods which would be two birds with one stone.

Main Tanks

Having amassed quite a few good tanks from both guilds we need to set some MT/OT rotations and find which ones work together and which ones will be our priority to gear. 

We’ve had issues with too many tanks for some runs, however, if we want to collect properly geared tanks for when we’re ready to enter these instances we may have to have a rotation set up. – They won’t get in every night but they will get some tank time in Gruul’s or ZA or Karazhan and thus gear.

I have four warriors, two druids and a prot pally I have thought of putting names forward on. – The two druids can also be kitty dps when needed and the prot pally always has healing gear in his bags; those three tanks, from what I’ve read so far on SSC/TK, would be more hydross trash and what not. – but I could be mistaken and I’m sure there are some fights that would utilize their abilities better then a warrior.

Specs raiding specs and specs that will fit into these instances.

The guilds that are part of this alliance are casual; I believe in freedom of choice and as long as you can play it you should be able to (within reason) spec it. – However, this may limit your time in a raid and this may hinder our progression and you may be asked to respec at some point.

Having said that; there are some pvp specs kicking around, I even just finally got out of a PvP frost spec for raiding.
Plus, on top of that frost mages won’t be as much as an asset in SSC from what I’ve understood, so fire gear must be built and respecs will be needed on that front.

DKP or looting system:

Both guilds currently use a free-roll system.
Roll if you need, if no one need rolls it; it goes to alt spec; then to greed; then to DE.

I have suggested moving away from it with 25 people and to start using a DKP system; in old world raiding I was use to it and understand the benefits and hindrances of it. – However, I believe when used properly it can be one of the greatest motivators for those serious about the raiding and can save a ton of pain for raidleader/guildmaster. – However, input and suggestions on something that may work for us would be greatly appreciated.

I’m not that familiar with Modified Rolling and I know that Loot council can get pretty sticky at times, however I’m open to either one of those as well.

Suicide kings one of our officers had a bad experience with in a previous guild and I have often said that it’s more trouble then it’s worth, so, I think that would be the only system that wouldn’t work with us.

Gear hit cap and pvp vs pve gear:

PvP vs PvE gear is something I’m working on and will have the pros and cons ready for this meeting hopefully.
However, the most basic thing that comes to mind is the hit cap. – Hit cap for DPS in the one thing that will boost your damage output more then anything else. – Hitting the mob is important and PvP gear lacks hit.

(I’m not hit capped, I will be soon, however. – with some luck on the drops..!)

Any other notes of PvP vs. PvE gear and what classes/roles can get away with it at this level of raiding would also, be appreciated.

Attendance and invites & Sitting out of raids:

Attendance will be a big thing, we don’t want someone to receive DKP and not show up for a month. – Talking to a few people who will be involved in these discussions we thought about putting a one month wipe on the DKP earned if you don’t show up for standby/raiding once a month. – However, that may seem a little harsh and input on that would be great as well.

Invites should be done by roles/classes, suggestion on what to bring to ‘Loot reaver’ or Lurker would be great as well, I’ll be doing some reading and chatting on good party balances but input from readers and what not is always appreciated. – What does your raid bring?

Another thing that I’ll be bringing up (and hopefully not stepping on tooo many toes :() is raiders and alts. – It’s great to be raiding, but sitting out isn’t a badthing either.  Filling a spot with alts instead of a main will hinder our gear progression and thus our progression as a whole.

Rotations.. how does your guild go about with them? – Do you switch MT/OT combinations or do you keep the same MT in each week ?

Class balance.

Lastly, balance.
We don’t want 15 hunters running around and using all the spots in the raid (although, it would be a funny sight to see!) and we don’t want to overfill in mages or warlocks either.

Some fights I have read about in SSC/TK recommends more casters then melee, others more melee.
When attempting these boss fights; does your guild rotate the dps? or do you take what you’ve got and hope for the best? even if you’re caster stacked.

You’re input and thoughts would be much appreciated in all of this and will hopefully make this Transition easier for all our guilds. Thoughts and ideas on how you prepared your players and made the transition successful would also be lovely.

I guess in the end it comes down to how serious we are to move into these instances; lots of us have prior comitments on other days and we would only be looking to raid a few nights (max 20 hours I think) a week. – I’m sure it’s possible with some work to do it this way, but it will take some work. – Like everything we do! :)

Thank you everyone in advanced~



5 Responses to “:+: Transition :+:”

  1. […] posted a request for input about diving into the T5 instances which I will also address at the bottom of today’s (long ass) […]

  2. minignomecakes Says:

    Matticus, you are the best man. – so many props for doing that for us all!

  3. dionadar Says:

    Being bored as is, just some ideas to think about:

    “Main Tanks”
    If you ever want to do Hydross you will need one ice and one nature resist tank (each of those should stack about 375 resistance if I remember that number right). These would ideally be prot warriors because of the reduced spelldmg they take.
    Additionally you will need two offtanks stacked with a mix of about 150 nature/ice resist. I personally prefer druids for this job, since they seem to be doing better at getting hold of two adds fast – hydross spawns 4 of them at once. However I never had a real good prot paladin here, so that would be nice to see ;)

    “Specs raiding specs and specs that will fit into these instances”
    If you allow everyone to spec as they wish (which i can only encourage!) you will have to realize, that using a (i.e.) ms-warri as a tank only hurts you. So – either force them to specc the way you want to use them, or don’t use them in this capacity, even if that means just leaving them at home.
    Ice Mages in SSC have yet to cause us problems though. There is one instance were I know this can cause a problem, and this is hydross frost phase – our frost mages (3?) usually just go for arcane/fire damage at that point and drink a mana potion extra if necessary.

    “Gear hit cap and pvp vs pve gear”

    Healers: My pvp gear is certainly not the worst as a healer, however i just use it, if i want to LOWER my heal output (which sometimes happens if the tanks are to sleepy, or the mages just cannot seem to hold their sheeps….) – essentially you are a tough nut, and you do not even lose that much +heal (for me around 300) but, you will not regenerate any mana. period. this will kill the raid in a 10 minute+ encounter easily.

    Tanks: There is no pvp-gear for tanking, with the sole exception for druids, which can stack some s3 items.

    Damage Dealers: The pvp-weapons are usually outstanding and for some other s3 parts it will be quite hard to find something better (look at the mage s3 bracers if you doubt this…) especially if your gems are pve oriented – nobody need those 8 resilience gems in pve.

    “Attendance and invites & Sitting out of raids”

    Loot Reaver: 3 tanks, 6 general purpose healers, 1 CoH priest/chain heal shaman, fill up with ranged dd – be sure to take a couple of mages for relaxed trash killing.
    Why the CoH priest/chain heal shaman? Just stack your 5 meelees at the back of the VR (if you got less, even better, add paladins – they will LOVE you for this when they realize getting heals means getting mana!) and have the priest spam CoH having pots w/ alchemists trinket on cd or similar options (consider taking shadow priests/shamans throwing mana totems) on that group. That way nobody in there will have to move out and get in danger of drawing an orb into the meelees.

    Loot Below: 3 tanks, ~7 healers, 6 mages or warlocks, stack up with random dds.
    Use your mages/wls to cc the ranged adds and your 3 tanks for the inner adds, focus inner adds, easy going – as long as nobody gets hit by the spout (if that was the correct name for that ability :D).

    “Class balance”
    We love our ranged dps so much, that we are currently taking only about 2-3 meelees – well actually we just happen to have many more competent ranged than good meelees :D

    “I guess in the end it comes down to how serious we are to move into these instances […] (max 20 hours I think) a week”
    Doing 20 hours a week with real commitment to flasks/pots will get you your progress way faster than you could imagine – because if you put that in 4 hours a day it would mean raiding 5 days a week ;)

  4. minignomecakes Says:

    thank you again Dionadar for your great input! – We tend to be a melee heavy guild, which brings up problems at time, but we try and work through it as best we can.

    Great news with the frost mages in SSC. – I may suggest respecing for hyrdross to fire, but apart from that I’m thrilled to hear I can stay in my favorite spec. :)

    I’ve had a few suggest a prot pally for adds, we have a great one among us, so we’ll be able to try it and see how it works.

    I never even thought of breaking it up into time frames like that, I just shot out a number for max range. – I can do 20 hours of raiding and have in the past, but I would perfer not to go over 10.

    I’ll be taking that all into consideration, thank you!

  5. […] — minignomecakes @ 4:54 pm First off, a huge thanks to the following for input into transition; Dionadar – for your great illustration on PvP vs PvE gear among many other things! Karthis- for a […]

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